Doubting Bro

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Posts by Doubting Bro

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  53

  WT Elders school: Avoid black and white thinking - now look at this zebra

  by sir82 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  continuing on with my haphazard review of the recent one-day elders school..... in one of the introductory talks, the co was making the point that we can't view things merely from a black and white perspective.

  many issues have "shades of gray" and we need to use discernment in such situations.. and i'm thinking "finally!

  maybe he will continue on to make an actual, reasonable point!".

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  Doubting Bro

  Is it any wonder the WTS is a huge fan of the "Hebrew" scriptures??? I mean, that Jesus dude was ok and all but WAY too soft on people.
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  102

  Conti v Watchtower - Court Denies Watchtower Motion re: Substituting Bond - November 16 court documents in pdf

  by jwleaks in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  jw leaks has published the latest court documents, in pdf, relating to "candace conti v the watchtower bible and tract society of new york" as filed on november 16, 2012.. the watchtower society motion to substitute or reduce bond on appeal is denied.. www.jwleaks.org.

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  Doubting Bro

  But if the WTS settles and drops their appeal, wouldn't this be bad case law for them? If they are sucessful on appeal, wouldn't that help them defend future suits with similar circumstances?

  The few million they're going to save if they drop their appeal and settle would need to be weighed against the additional millions new suits could cost them wouldn't they?

  That's why I think the WTS has no choice but to push forward with the appeals process.
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  112

  Are They Cynically Shutting Down The Organization?

  by metatron in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've raised this idea before but recent events seem to support it.

  changes in the watchtower may be guided by more than a need for cash flow: they may simply be liquidating/shutting it down as discreetly as possible.. of course, this doesn't mean they stop working on their upstate ny country club - but it could mean that the throrough going exposure and disproof of their beliefs on the internet, when it emerged, took many of them by surprize, as it did many of us!

  after awhile, they generally gave up trying to make any sense of their doctrines - and coupled with cash flow issues - moved towards a quiet retreat.. take a look at a few things:.

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  Doubting Bro

  The reactionary moves of the last 20 years lead me to believe that there is no faceless, shadow group running the WTS. If there is, they are the worst business men in the world. The organization lurches from point to point like a ship without a captain. I think the GB makes the decisions and they are surrounded by uncreative yes men who tell them what they want to hear. The legal department chimes in when necessary, although I'm not sure they're always listened to.

  I'm as cynical a person as there is but they are too inept to be anything but misguided true believers who believe they have been selected by God to lead his people.

  I could fix the business fairly easily and suggest in addition to some of the good ideas above:

  1 - Institute tithing

  2 - Greatly reduce printing operations including moving KMs and WT study articles digital format in countries where it makes sense. Move as much to digital as possible in 1 st world countries and reduce 3 rd world printings to basics. Eliminate the public WT.

  3 – Drop the shunning and DF’ing policy, it costs too much to enforce in terms of donations. Better to keep bad JWs on the tithing rolls than to kick them out. Also, not having people confess their sins would protect the WTS from pedophile lawsuits. If they don’t know about it, they can’t be expected to act.

  4 – Amend the door to door work to only pioneers and create a new pioneer category that is for say 15 a month people. You still want recruiting to keep the illusion of a world wide successful preaching work but you eliminate a big bulk of printed material. Also, amend door to door to be like the Mormons where they give you a tract and direct you to their website. Again cuts down on materials. Finally, charge for the literature that is ordered and pay any local taxes that are necessary. You just add the tax on to the purchase, it’s not that hard.

  5 – Amend the blood policy to conscious matter to defuse the potential liability.

  6 – Have local elders elected by the congregation. Again, eliminate the liability link to the mothership.

  7 – Turn the new facility in Warwick into a small private college similar to BYU.

  If the organization were run from a business prospective, you could see that some of these changes could be made and there would be a master plan to do them. As it is, they seem to be going on the whims of the GB and it shows.
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  41

  does anyone feel messed up sexually because of being brought up as jw? like you have missed out, etc?

  by johnjones3210 in

  1. social
  2. relationships

  hiya,.

  i'm new to this forum but just wanted to talk to somebody about this.. i was brought up as a jw and left just over a year ago.

  i'm now 26 and feel messed up sexually.

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  Doubting Bro

  I'll buck the trend here. I don't feel messed up at all. Married over 15 years to the only person I've had sex with. Our marriage is fine and the sexual aspect I think is pretty decent (although I'm a typical guy and would like to see it happen more often).

  At first, the lack of experience was telling but we both lacked it so it wasn't embarrasing. There's been great improvement.

  I probably got lucky (no pun intended) in that my wife and I are compatible. Obviously we didn't know that before the wedding and it was a roll of the dice.

  I also got some decent advice that if you "take care" of her, its way better for you. Also, it seems to me that on the rare occasions when the subject of sex comes up (and its often the women talking amongst themselves), the folks in my generation and younger who very young kids/not born in the 70s don't even know about the WTS prohibitions regarding certain acts. Either that or they just don't care.

  I know many were messed up. I was certainly very awkard with the ladies when I was a teenager but I would have been that way regardless of being a JW.
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  9

  The most logical thing I've heard from an elder

  by biometrics in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  he said: "<biometrics>, if you can't see 1914, and don't beleive the gb is god's only channel, there's not much point in discussing this any further"..

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  Doubting Bro

  It is true though. If they are God's Organization, then he'll fix whatever problems come up. If they're not, then they're 1) doomed or 2) there isn't a God to care either way and there's no benefit to following them.

  I used to believe that they were God's Organization and thus tried to effect local change to the best I could. Once I realized they couldn't possibly be Gods organization mainly due to 1914 not being prophetically significant, then the rest of the doctrinal matters really didn't matter.
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  52

  Is 1914 still relevant in WT/JW Theology?

  by 00DAD in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  ) - p. 7 par.

  10:12, 13) - p. 20 par.

  - p. 25 par.

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  Doubting Bro

  So I started looking at the Revelation book to see if I could unwind some of the 1914/1919 teachings and push the dates forward. After losing my lunch and bashing my head against a wall for ever believing this crap, I have to say I agree that it's still relevant.

  What a mess that Revelation book is! They take the same scripture and apply it to 1) early Christians, 2) "apostate" Christanity (only the bad stuff) and 3) post 1919 JWs (only the good stuff).

  Their interpretations don't make any sense and aren't consistant so to come up with an alternative while staying in the same general framework is hard because you can't apply any logic to it!

  I agree with the others that say it really doesn't matter if they change 1914 or not. They've bought themselves another 30 years or so with the insane generation definition. Let the next GB deal with it.
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  23

  Bossert Hotel sold for $81M,,

  by Gayle in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://therealdeal.com/blog/2012/11/12/chetrit-bistricer-pay-81-million-for-brooklyns-bossert-hotel/.

  that is quite a hit.

  it had sold a few ago for $100m but that fell through.

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  Doubting Bro

  Keep in mind it costs $$$ to maintain the building. Electricty, water, sewer, gas, routine maintance projects. Sure, they use free labor to do the work, but the fixed costs are likely not cheap to keep that building up and running. So I'm sure its a drag on the bottom line.

  They turned a nice profit, yeah they're not selling at the top of the market but buyers for these sorts of buildings don't come along every day. I'd probably sell it if I were them because while not as big of a profit as they once thought it was, it's still likely 3 to 4 times what they paid for it.

  The sale of the Brooklyn properties has really heated up this year. They certainly have gotten an influx of cash this year.
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  65

  It's Official! The Governing Body IS the Faithful and Discreet Slave (Annual Meeting Report - jw.org)

  by 00DAD in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it's official!

  from the jw.org website:.

  november 9, 2012. annual meeting report .

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  Doubting Bro

  Fair enough 00DAD. They're so difficult to figure out since what they do often isn't logical, especially when your talking about their theology!

  Maybe they'll keep 1914 as the start of Jesus reign but move some of the other events into the future?
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  37

  AUSTRALIA - Prime Minister Gillard has just announced a National Royal Commission into Child Abuse within Religions

  by jwleaks in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  australia's prime minister julia gillard has announced a national royal commission into child abuse within religions and religious charities (not-for-profit sector).

  julia gillard announces royal commission will probe child sex abuse.

  royal commission to probe child abuse.

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  Doubting Bro

  BTTT - I think this is good news and wish more countries would take this step. Society in general is getting sick and tired of organizations who cover up wrongdoing, putting kids in harms way simply to save their reputation.
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  65

  It's Official! The Governing Body IS the Faithful and Discreet Slave (Annual Meeting Report - jw.org)

  by 00DAD in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it's official!

  from the jw.org website:.

  november 9, 2012. annual meeting report .

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  Doubting Bro

  I put this thought on another thread but I really think this is a step to change the end time prophesy around.

  TJ - I hear what you're saying but what challenges in authority is the GB facing from other "annointed". The power structure is much different today than it was in Russell's or Rutherford's day.

  What do you think would happen if an annointed brother or sister persisted in trying to get the GB to change doctrine or even taught different doctrine or shared different ideas with their local congregation. They may be given a little more latitude than say you or I, but they most certainly would be talked to and if they continued, there's no doubt in my mind they would be DF'ed. Nothing in this has really changed that fact.

  I agree that there is something motivating this change. And, it's not holy spirit or a revelation from Jehovah/Jesus/whoever.

  They know that the 607 arguement doesn't work. You see how many changes they've made over the years to the interpretation of Revalation. If they move up the dates, they'd be able to generate more excitement and urgency. Sure, they'd lose a few but they didn't lose that many when they said the system was going to end in 1975 so I can't imagine they'd lose that many if they moved around the end time date now.

  The single most important thing was the appointment of the FDS. Now that they moved it to just the GB, it's easy enough to say the GB didn't officially come into existence until (pick a date - 40s as some of their archieve series is saying or 70s when it actually came into existence). Now that the emergence of a FDS isn't until modern times and not a continous sucession of annointed individuals, then its super easy to push it past 1919.